• MEMBERS

What the F**k Do You Know About Being Asian?

Print | Email

EurasianNation: You guys really brought the house down at the Def Poetry Jam. How did that feel?

Catzie: It feels kind of rewarding, kind of weird. As Asians, we are a minority in the spoken word scene so it was a pleasant surprise that the audience reacted the way they did. In most cases our audience is mainly Asian-American, so the response is always receptive. But in this case the audience was predominantly black, so it was great to see that they liked what we were saying even though it could have easily been directed to any one of them. I'm just happy that we got a standing ovation and it was all on tape.

EN: I noticed that a lot of people in the audience looked shocked and surprised at seeing these two angry Asian women with attitude. Almost like they didn't know how to handle it. Do you get that a lot?

Catzie: We're very used to this attitude from the audience. It plays into their whole prejudice of what they thought we were going to say or do as far as content. They may have expected a nice little fan dance or a little pretty poem about lotus trees and peach blossoms, or something very meditative. But because we are exposing an ugly truth about the Asian experience, they get on the defensive. But we've also had people who've admitted to us right after seeing our performance that they've done something that in the past that now doesn't seem right. So sometimes the shock leads to a sort of revelation.

Michelle: Sometimes it's a pleasant surprise. They're shocked, but after they get over the shock they become supportive and give us love. We also get the opposite reaction. We've been accused of reverse racism by white audiences and of expressing "artificial anger" by black audiences.

Unfortunately, in this country there's a dichotomy of racial discussion. It's divided along black or white lines. When it comes to people of color, some minority issues seem more legitimate than others. African-Americans look at us and say: "You guys have nothing to complain about. What do you know about oppression, about being poor, about discrimination, about racism?"

That shows me how little they know about Asian-Americans in this country, about the kind of discrimination this country has shown to Asians since the 19th century when the Chinese started coming here, about laws that prevented Asians from owning property. Most people don't even know that Japanese-Americans were interned during World War II!

It's also upsetting how apathetic they are to those issues. Even after we explain to them that there's so much more to our history that they don't know about, as far as anti-Asian discrimination goes, some of them say they don't care. That's not to say that all African-Americans feel that way. We have gotten huge support from that community, but there's definitely this small segment that feels that way.

EN: You've decided to call yourselves Yellow Rage. Does that mean that anger is the predominant theme of your work?

Catzie: I'd like to think that all our pieces come from a source of rage, but it deeper than that. It's pain really. I guess it's like when someone hurts you,
you feel anger. The anger is what you see, but then for a split second it's pain.

Michelle: Asian-Americans are largely invisible. We're dismissed before even given a chance. Some of that is our own fault. When raising awareness about how Asian-Americans think, sometimes you have to be angry for people to turn your way and listen.

EN: Michelle, how do you define yourself ethnically?

Michelle: I define myself as biracial, but I usually say Korean-American or Asian-American first. But people often look at me and say "are you mixed?" or "You don't look Asian." Then I identify myself as being biracial: half Korean and half Caucasian.

Biologically speaking I am half white, but I've never felt or thought I was white. If anything, I was always conscious of not being white, and of others not seeing me as white. That's something I struggled with a lot in my childhood and adolescence. I think that's the source of a lot of my conflicts with my mom. I was mad that she wasn't white because I wanted to be white.

People tend to take legitimacy away from biracial people as a people of color. It's that much more difficult growing up biracial. Not that it's easy for full Asian-Americans. But we're dealing with rejection with both sides: feeling rejected by white people but also feeling denied our Asianness by other Asians. It's a difficult and painful thing.

EN: Do you remember the first time you became aware that you were biracial?

Michelle: When I was six years old I went to a Catholic school that was predominantly white. It sounds melodramatic now, but it really happened. I have this memory of these white kids surrounding me and my brother, dancing around us singing "ching chong" songs and slanting their eyes. That was the first time I ever heard the word "chink." That's also the first time I became aware that being Asian or part Asian was not seen as a good thing by some people. And it only escalated as I got older.

EN: Do you think most people think of you as biracial? Or do they just think of you as Asian?

Michelle: I don't know. When people first see me they think of me as being mixed. But after they talk to me they think of me more as Asian-American, because I'm "conscious" and have these political convictions that don't jive with those that white people align themselves with. It's like I become more Asian, the more I talk about certain issues.

That's an interesting phenomenon. There are some similarities in black communities. It makes you think, what is Asianness? What does it mean to be Asian? Black people talk about being "too black" or "not black enough." If you wear a dashiki and wear your hair natural and burn incense and listen to The Roots, does that make you more black?

If I'm more outspoken, does that make me more Asian? I don't think so. I'm no more Asian than another biracial who identifies more with white culture than Asian culture. I'm no more Asian than a Korean adoptee who grew up in a white family and thinks of herself as white.

EN: From your poetry I assume that you've had to deal with a lot of ignorance and stereotypes to do with your being Asian. Can you give me a couple examples of experiences that particularly stand out in your mind?

Catzie: When I was growing up, my mother had to depend on me, even at the young age of five. Can you imagine what kind of communications skills I had when I was five? Can you imagine being a grown person having to depend on such a young person because it seems they know more
the you do? Anywhere she had to speak or listen to English, I went.

There's also the usual guy-trying-to-pick-me-up routine, assuming the new Korean line he just learned will really impress me because I might be Korean. Then there's the fact they see us as a race and not as individuals. It's like we're all the same, so just pick any Asian language and say the line. It's sick!

Michelle: Fetishizing has been a huge thing for me. Now that I'm older and wiser, I can look back and see that most men I've dated had fetishes for Asian women and that's why they went out with me. My very first boyfriend was definitely an Asiaphile. But at 12 years old you don't know how to make sense of that.

Then there's the sexual stuff. It seems like when I go out with a guy, the first thing he wants to know is if I can give him a massage. I'm like, what the hell are you talking about? They tend to think you'll be real submissive, and that you'll do anything sexually.

Because I'm half Caucasian, I feel like I've had an insider's view of how white people talk amongst themselves. Within the context of knowing I'm biracial and accepting my white side, white people freely talk in front of me about chinks and spicks and niggers. My own white family is very racist, and they discriminated a lot against my mom, my brother and myself.

I find it increasingly difficult to trust white people as I get older. I can honestly say that I can't identify one white person that I can call a friend. I feel like they're smiling in my face and going home and saying these other things. I have never met a white person who didn't reveal that they were racist at some point.

EN: People often say that Asians don't unify as much as they should. And as a result, they have much less political and social clout than other minority groups like blacks and Latinos. Do you agree with that?

Michelle: On some level I do. I think that for some of us, part of what we're taught by our parents is not to cause trouble or bring attention to ourselves. You're supposed to be respectful and not question authority. I think the combination of having to bring attention to oneself and the commitment involved in sustaining protest turns Asian-Americans away from unifying and actively protesting.

Catzie: Another reason may be the lack of education about Asian-American activism and awareness. We all grew up on stories about Dr. Martin Luther King and Malcolm X, we all know about the Black Panthers and the women's rights movement (though they were mostly white), and of course the very foundation from which this nation was built (also mostly white men).

But what about Asian-Americans? It's like we weren't included in the making of the U.S. But if we're not included in this country's history, we're not really Americans, right? And if the image of Asian-Americans protesting and standing up for our rights doesn't exist in the American public's mind, they won't take it seriously when we demand justice. They'll think we're just complaining!

Michelle: That's not to say we have never unified, because we have. But we haven't done it in a pan-Asian way. Some Japanese protested during World War II. But the Chinese didn't join them, in fact, some wore buttons that said "I'm Chinese not Japanese" to avoid being interned. We're a fractured community. In order to mobilize in a productive way, we need to start seeing ourselves as a community of Asians, as a pan-Asian group.

EN: But how realistic do you think that is? There is so much historical animosity amongst Asians, for example, between Chinese and Japanese, between Koreans and Japanese.

Michelle: It's a daunting task. There's a lot of tribal mentality among Asians. Koreans only hang around Koreans, they don't really want to hook up with the Chinese. Filipinos usually roll deep, there's a lot of pride there. It's hard to get people out of that mentality.

Within an American context, the way we've been treated historically becomes important. We've all inherited anti-Asian sentiment and legislation. The Chinese were the first Asian immigrants to this country, but subsequent Japanese who came here inherited the effects of anti-Chinese feelings and sentiments. Anti-Chinese laws were revised to also apply to the Japanese, and as more Vietnamese and Koreans started coming in, the laws were revised again to apply to them as well.

We have all been clumped together and oppressed in similar kinds of ways. It becomes less about Asian history and more about Asian American history. We should have a dialogue about what's going on in Asia, but the Asian-American context is critical.

EN: On your Web site, you say that you hope to "challenge mainstream misconceptions of Asianness." If you had your way, in a perfect world, how would you like people to think of Asians?

Michelle: First and foremost, I'd like people to recognize Asians as human beings. Because we get categorized and stereotyped, our humanity is denied to us. When people imagine another group as non-entities or dehumanize them, whether through objectification or stereotyping, what they do is say "other" or "different" so they don't connect and identify with them. But we are like you in the sense that we have feelings and desires and dreams. Once someone starts recognizing another people's humanity, it will change their mentality, and a changed mentality will also change action.

Catzie: I want people to know that there is no such thing as a hierarchy to oppression. When we speak out, we're not trying to say we've had it worse than other people, so feel bad for us. I'd really like them to see that Asians get angry too and that the Asianness in an Asian person will always be there so just know it.

EN: Tell me about your CD.

Catzie: People kept asking us to make one, so we finally did it. I have to say, I don't like performing in a little closet. It doesn't help, I end up getting frustrated and having to start over.

Michelle: The CD is called "Black Hair, Brown Eyes, Yellow Rage Volume I." There are 20 tracks which include some of Catzie's outtakes. Most people have only seen us on HBO and only know that one piece. But the CD shows the spectrum of our artistry in terms of our expression. Not only do Catzie and I do group and solo pieces, we also have a large range of issues that we deal with. We have angry pieces, sad pieces, funny pieces, happy pieces, long pieces, short pieces. Some use rap and hip hop rhythms, others are more like songs. I've also self-published a chapbook, which is a small collection of poetry. It's called Ancestor Worship. Catzie will be putting one out soon too.